In a well-performed swing the hips come to full extension about the same time the upper arms come away from the rib cage. Even if the bell does go overhead you still havent actually done more work if you swing correctly. This SubReddit is for discussion of CrossFit, functional fitness, weightlifting and the lifestyle, nutrition and training methodologies involved. Samuel and Otey have a whole list of reasons. More is not always better, which is why the American kettlebell swing is completely Overrated, according to Mens Health fitness director Ebenezer Samuel, C.S.C.S. So more work in less time, or more weight moved farther in less time, is largely a measure of an exercises potency. The American Swing movement standard requires the kettlebell to balance upside down above the head with arms locked out, do this with a heavy kettlebell and you are gambling with injury upon each rep, will the kettlebell topple over or not? This leads to the next problem that awful head stuck out, lower back hyperextended position that many are forced to do to get into the finish position. Are these articles referring to problems that occur often, or problems that occur even if the exercise is performed correctly? Have a question or comment? He taught me about rationalization. If you do choose to swing with two hands, then swing to chest height where your lack of shoulder mobility isnt an issue and you can maintain good form.
To do otherwise seems unnatural. Because youre in a staggered stance, this becomes a unilateral movement, with an added focus on keeping your hips in a forward position. So a wide stance and a narrow hand position are going to just about make the chances of having adequate mobility in our overhead swing impossible. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhl5K0mTSKY. No matter whether you own classic bells or competition style this is true.
We may earn a commission through links on our site. Doesn't mean it's a better movement. That allows you to go heavier as well, as opposed to the full force eccentric pressure from an overhead position. This single-arm variation is so much more joint-friendly than an American kettlebell swing. So it's for the judges I see.
I find it pretty key to present this info (albeit condensed) when teaching the swing to newbies so they know they have a choice for what their shoulders can handle. Its like shrugging at the top of a deadlift to get the bar higher. It may be a staple of CF, but I think it varies from box to box. Kettlebells are designed to be used one handed. Unlock your business potential with Smart bot integration, Image processings, Data mining, Big Data Analysis and much more. If you can swing a kettlebell over your head using only hips and no arms, you need to be using a heavier kettlebell. I only hope that one day my progress is as pronounced as his has been.
For people who dont know lets look at the main point that distinguishes the American swing from a swing done correctly its a two-hand swing where the bell travels overhead. We would argue that partial reps are neurologically incomplete.
I hired Romit Arora and his team (Onceclick IT solutions) for my IoT products android and ios app development from scratch. Once you reach the top, the bell is going to stop before momentum brings it back to a speed that can lead to injury if someone isnt trained for it. Three sets of 10 to 12 reps works here. Is the goal to get the bar higher, or to hinge and extend? People are more removed from their surroundings than ever before and we see it on a daily basis when they come into the gym. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhl5K0mTSKY. Excite and Engage travelers with your unique travel apps and websites. There are two reasons. So yah, I'm torn - I have felt that the American KB swing feels unnatural from time to time and that my shoulders are contorting and my back archingso some of this make sense - but it's such a staple of CrossFit that it's gotta be a good movement, right?? To be honest, Im sick of the war between the American and Russian Swing, stop trying to make one look better than the other, theyre both good after proper education and within the right context. Everything you need to know, Jennifer Hintenberger Kettlebell Phoenix (part 2). There is no reason to swing a kettlebell over your head. The swing is a hinge and extension pattern and the arms are merely hooks. Arm/shoulders are not producing any of the momentum/force. and Mens Health advisory board member David Otey, C.S.C.S. The biggest difference between the American and RussianSwing (AKA Conventional Kettlebell Swing) is the height the kettlebell ends at, explosiveness required and the involvement of the shoulders. Your feedback below or on this Facebook post here. The first is somewhat intuitive. In this case, I am helping him discover his physical self and hes helping me figure out more about whats going on around us. Mr. Arora Romit was very patient with the requirements. Excite & engage travelers with your unique travel apps & websites. Your shoulders will thank you and your hip hinge will still be trained fully. Thats a good thing, as I think the best relationships are those where both parties benefit. To be part of a tribe. Could it be that CrossFit simply needed a movement standard, i.e. Ever. The goal of the kettlebell swing was always to create explosive hip power, so it would make sense to keep the focus on hip movement. If you need your arms, then youre doing something other than a swing. Legitimate question: would a KB snatch and American KB swing be one in the same? Both, some of the execution is unavoidable - raising your arms overhead always hyper extends the shoulders and with your arms so close limits over-all shoulder mobility. 
We seek to inform, educate and advocate for this community. 407-412, President Plaza, Opp. That standard alone put the American kettlebell swing in a dubiously Overrated class of its own. Deep down we all know that, right? Ditto, everyone but the competition level athletes russian swings. So I want to ask this community what they think. When we swing the kettlebell to overhead, the American swing, we nearly double the range of motion compared to the Russian swing and thereby double the work done each stroke. Which leads me to what you should be doing to get the bell overhead. their team has good knowledge of Bluetooth/BLE handling via apps which was my concern before hiring them but they did deliver properly. (I say in most cases as done perfectly the bell will still be able to be floated into the correct position overhead with minimal effort on the high pull. They are used as a conditioning tool, and standard weight is 2 pood. Unlock your brand's potential with our tech innovations. This mode of thinking has seen people attempt to fix and modify kettlebell training, despite the fact that kettlebells have been used for physical culture for over three hundred years. above the head is easier to judge than shoulder height? They provide detailed weekly project updates, and will gladly take the time to do a thorough demo of what they are building whenever requested. The lift youre looking for is the snatch. Hold your horses, just because I dont agree with the above, does not mean I dont like the American Swing, Im just saying the above is bull to justify it. I know Americans who use the "Russian" style. Yes, the title says The American Kettlebell Swing: Why You Should Never Do It but thats partlyclickbait and partly true. The hyperextended back is a sign of the swing being finished with the quads and not the hips as it should be, while also creating movement that allows the neck to be pushed forward so the ears are past the arms. I imagine what would happen if these people fell over stuck on the ground like turtles on their backs unable to get back up again unless someone helps them out. All legitimate points. Im also heading up the Kettlebells in CrossFit Project, check it out, I will soon release an ebook which covers details on how to run a workshop for kettlebell swing and snatch efficiency in CrossFit. If there is a natural range of motion to any movement we like to complete it. At about this point someone will tell me, through a flawed understanding of physics, that moving the bell overhead somehow equals more work. While its true that the equation for work in physics has a component of the distance the mass travels, someone making that argument is not really seeing what is going on. but, CrossFit doesn't work like that. The only reason why the "competitors" swing american is to be ready for their competitions' standards. Listen to the Podcast of this article here. When it comes to programming, if you want to work the shoulders in aworkout, then throw some American Swings in, of course people will say but there are better ways to work the shoulders, this is true, but its not always about whats better, wed have some really boring programmes if it was, and clients would get bored quite quickly. Popular PWA frameworks like ReactJs, Angular JS, VueJs, Ionic, NestJS, etc help us deliver an app-like user experience. Our product picks are editor-tested, expert-approved. If you do Olympic Lifting, you get in Olympic Lifting Coaches for teaching, if you do Kettlebell Training, you get in . Lets look at some of the problems that are within the overhead swing. I feel like KB swings are all about hips, arms just along for the ride. CrossFit Level 1 Trainer Testimonial for Kettlebell Certification, How Gym Athletes Should Use Coffee: Benefits and Drawbacks from Coffee Intake, What is HIIT? "American swings" are used to count reps in CrossFit. Technology has ruined the world. From hordes of zombies walking down the street staring at their phones, not paying attention to their surroundings, to mass commercial agriculture, were going backwards. Back when I first started training people I remember that everyone could do push ups and sit ups, yet these days its all too common that people walk in the door and cant even do a single push up. But you need to ask yourself if the kettlebell is really designed for that? KB's aren't even designed to go over-head, they aren't even technically really designed for two handed use; but they are certainly not designed to go above a persons head. Russian KB Swings, Russian KB Swings, Russian KB Swings, Russian KB Swings, are better. He and his team have worked well to deliver and to schedule. If you want to swing really heavy, lets say32kg or over, then you dont do American Swings, yeah of course Greg would say most of our guys can easily do an American Swing with 32kg in fact, he said it, Id be really surprised if by most of our guys he was referring to most of the guys from all boxes across the world, because that sounds really unlikely and very dangerous for most of his guys. I am not an expert either, but it seems that the problems you've listed stem from incorrect positioning, which isn't a fault in the exercise, it's a fault in its execution (which, unfortunately, is more of a staple of CrossFit than KB swinging). One of the main issues with the American kettlebell swing is that the additional overhead extension of the arms and shoulder following a ballistic, hip driving start, could become problematic for those who suffer from range of motion issues. if i swing to shoulder level lazily, i can conserve energy compared to someone who swings explosively (leaving it hang merely inches off their hips) and buffers it with their arms. Why? Ltd. is passionate about building and scaling businesses through technological innovations. You dont straight away grab the barbell and do overhead squats with a narrow grip do you? So I am by no means an expert, but I've been doing a lot of research lately on the American Kettlebell Swing (Swinging all the way over the head) and I'm being surprised how much information is out there that basically says the American KB swing is "Bad," or not worth it. I agree with you, its up there with things crossfit gyms do that confuse me its like kipping pull-ups. We dont do half rep pull-ups, we dont do half rep squats, and we dont do half rep push-ups. To have purpose in life. As a bonus you will give your grip a solid workout and test your shoulder stabilizers better as you learn to fixate the weight overhead in an instant. This applies not just to CrossFit, this applies to mostgyms across the world. No, youwork up to that, and once youre able to do it, it becomes a show of mobility the ultimate overhead position! This video clears up a lot about the difference between the American and Russian versions. Swings are used to develop explosiveness from the hips. We deploy the latest technologies and frameworks to build robust travel apps and portals that cater to your business model and custom requirements. Titanium Square, Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning. Of course you can use them with two hands for exercises like the goblet squat or the two-hand swing, and even for corrective work such as seen in the FMS system. What's more, the American kettlebell swing reduces one of the best power-generating hip exercises (the standard kettlebell swing) to an ineffective multitude of movements. He believes that a great product is created by paying attention to the minutest details and striving to deliver a delightful user experience. American Kettlebell Swings Should Not Be Part of Your Workout. If you want the scoop on the Russian Swing, have a look at this ebook http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Swing-Amazingly-Extremely-Detailed-ebook/dp/B01EANE5RG/, Join the Kettlebell Swing group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/kettlebell.swing/. Try these 3 moves instead. Just because a movement is used a lot, does not make it good. Featured in 4 issues of the Iron Man magazine. Cavemantraining 28 Day Kettlebell Swing Challenge, The REAL Reason You Should Squeeze Your Glutes, Free Follow-Along Kettlebell Workout Full-Length. But now that youre here, allow me to elaborate and tell you that within the right context its perfectly okto say You should never do an American Swing, but its just plain stupid and ignorant to say without proper context, and generalising. For any given time period, the power would be equivalent only if the Russian swing rate was twice the American swing rate. Greg Glassman, founder of CrossFit. My opinion is that the American Swing gets a bad rep within the kettlebell community because of the fact that CrossFit athletes are not taught the conventional swing first, without this fundamental foundation itwill promote the athlete to primarily use their shoulders to do a lot of pulling, rather than hip and leg drive to get the weight up with the swing, hence the reason its called American Swing. I can also see the American Swing as progression to the kb snatch or regression for those injured. Think of it like a roller coaster effect, Otey says.
But it takes more work. Owner of Cavemantraining and Kettlebell Training Education. Rarely can you find an exercise for which not a single argument can be made for its inclusion in any workout routine. These frameworks help business models to be progressive. Having to do awful things to your posture to perform a movement should be a clue that something is wrong. No reason in hell to do them, but with varying shades of hip jiggles and footie kicks, what is the threshold for a "strict" pullup? He made sure that all of what we needed is delivered exactly how we wanted it. OneClick consists of a friendly and easy-to-work-with team. Vision of a caveman. Good discussion. By adding an unnecessary overhead movement to the traditional kettlebell swing, its a shoulder injury waiting to happen. Well played sir! Check out these exercises. The owner of the box I attend is kettlebell certified and only teaches or has other coaches teach the Russian swing. The context you should consider when deciding to include one or the other, or both, are: Following is whatGreg has to say about the American Swing. Men's Health participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites. Get in touch: 2022 Arnold Strongman Classic UK Lineup and Events Revealed, Bodybuilder Michal Kriznek Switches to NPC, Hopes to Qualify for 2022 Mr. Olympia, Check Out Chad Penson (90KG) Squatting 33 Pounds Over His Current World Record, Watch Strongman Ivan Makarov Make a Deadlift Over 1,000 Pounds Look Casual, Powerlifter Kristy Hawkins (75KG) Deadlifts Over 22 Pounds More Than Her Own World Record. The CrossFit-favorite exercise wreaks havoc on your shoulders. One of my clients is smart. The rest is just waiting until the bell begins its downward journey so you can hike it back and hinge again. From health to sports, including home automation and smart cities, the Internet of Things (IoT) has opened up avenues for futuristic business models to build a more connected world. You may be able to find more information about this and similar content at piano.io, This Simple Drill Builds Forearm Strength, This Outdoor Lunge Series Builds Your Legs, A Physical Therapist's Tips for a Better Deadlift, Trainer Shares How to Deadlift for Hamstring Gains, Apply for Our Strength In Diversity Program Here, Men's Health Knows There Is Strength in Diversity, Marcus Filly Ends Arm Day With This KB Finisher, The EZ Bar Incline Row Lets You Lift Heavy, A Strength Coach Ranked All the Glutes Exercises. Russian Girevoy Sport Institute Kettlebell Coach, IKFF Certified Kettlebell Teacher, Kettlebell Sport Rank 2, HardstyleFit Kettlebell Level 1 Instructor., CrossFit Level 1 Trainer, CrossFit Judges Certificate, CrossFit Lesson Planning Certificate, Kettlebells Level 2 Trainer, Kettlebell Science and Application, MMA Fitness Level 2, MMA Conditioning Level 1, BJJ Purple Belt and more. While buyer benefits from real-time prices and fair competition, sellers benefits. Holding the weight with both hands and swinging it completely overhead puts an unnecessary strain on your wrists and shoulders, especially as you attempt to go heavier. For starters, kettlebells are not designed to be used with two hands. I mean so smart that often I cant speak with him for long because he sends my brain into a twist. There is also the fact that you simply shouldnt do an American Swing with a very heavy weight. Take the fact that everything else in CrossFit when it comes to barbell work is pretty much pulling, its quite easy for athletes to mistakingly applythat concept to the swing. The reason for that is simple the closer your hands are together the less shoulder mobility youll have. It takes more energy to move an object 4 feet than 2 feet, end of story. Basically many articles I've read state the following; The American KB swing, limits shoulder mobility by forcing the arms together to closely at the top of the swing, It increases the chance of injury by forcing a hyper-extension of the shoulders, and spinal cord, It actually does not offer "more work" because the primary goal of KB swing is hip extension, and core contraction - so the additional movement above the head is irrelevant because it's carried on momentum (at least it's supposed to be) and the actual beneficial hip movement is already completed, Most people can't properly keep their spines perfectly straight, and end up compensating by arching their backs and sticking the but out in order to get the bell straight over the head, this excessive lumbar arch is dangerous and improper (see 1.). If you tell me that at this point you need your arms to help the bell get overhead youre doing something else. But many will try to use a bell too heavy to allow them to get this right and will still have too straight an arm during the first half of the snatch). I follow Field Strong programming (by the guys that do CrossFit Football), and we only use Russian swings. Have a question or comment? Btw. What he said to me over the last two days, both in person and by email, has been quite eye opening. If you choose to go overhead then opt to go one handed, as the design was intended, and snatch instead. Our audience encompasses the entire spectrum of the fitness community: consumers, aficionados, fitness professionals, and business owners. Theres no sense in risking injury when there are plenty of worthy (and more shoulder-safe) alternatives. With this variation, youre still able to get great power-producing swing benefits with just a light kettlebell. I mean just do it where you stand right now i'm not INFLEXIBLE and I can still notice a slight curve just putting my hands up directly above w/ no weight. but it's such a staple of CrossFit that it's gotta be a good movement, right?? So, in an effort to modernize a three hundred year old tool in regards to the most foundational exercise of all the kettlebell exercises, weve actually made things worse. The second thing is that one needs good shoulder and thoracic mobility before being able to put the kettlebell overhead with such a narrow grip, most people dont have this, so why force theshoulders in such an awkward position theyre not ready for? I don't know a ton about the full history of it but I thought it was primarily CrossFit that did the overhead swing. KB swings are about the hips generating power. However, there is still a lot that can be said about this comparison, more on that next time. The awkward placement is another unnecessary recipe for shoulder injury, especially when there are safer options to get overhead, like dumbbell presses and kettlebell snatches. He defined this as an attempt to improve or modernize things, and this is actually the point of this article. Sorry though, it is definitely more work. Isnt it possible that people have figured out the best uses for these tools over the last centuries and any attempts to fix something that isnt broken is only in an effort to seem like youve got something original to say? Recommended. Often after we speak, I find myself on Wikipedia looking up something he said or looking for the definition of a word. Same thing with kipping pullups. The second reason deals with some fundamentals of physics and exercise physiology. I feel that there is more of a pull (obviously) in the KB snatch that it would be categorized as a different movement but the boxes I've been to use them interchangeably. I did not make the above comment, but I do agree with it. Three sets of six to eight reps is a good starting point for these. Was expecting a legit video.. Idk why.. Forgot this is reddit. I dont classify the high swing as an American Swing, the high swing comes up just a bit higher than the conventional swing, in between shoulder height and above the head. Intensity, more than any other measurable factor, correlates to physiological response. OneClick is passionate about world-class work and believes that work-life balance is essential to delivering quality. As mentioned earlier, its all about proper context, if Im working with a novice, then I will certainly not do the American Swing with them, and if I saw some other trainer with a novice, I would say You should not be doing the American Swing and explain why. By being able to first lower the kettlebell to your shoulder before lowering and resetting into swing position, you'll reduce the momentum. The snatch does allow you to do more work because as the bell gets to around chest height youll need to high pull it (in most cases) to get the bell through the second stage of the movement, before punching the hand through and finishing with it overhead. The rest of the movement is the bell continuing on its upward path thanks to the momentum caused by the hip extension phase. Press J to jump to the feed.
This could be done by picking up and swinging a heavier kettlebell. This then all becomes a recipe for disaster and injury, especially with high reps and awkward overhead position. from an RKB standpoint, the lower swing gains more, as per the hip extension and power.
I rarely see anyone doing an American KBS. CrossFit is a great system, but they dont utilise kettlebells well because of a lack of qualified kettlebell instruction. ~ T.C., RKC. Considering that at this point the bell will still be below waist height you should start to realize that as far as the swing is concerned youre actually finished. the american swing is in crossfit for the same reason kipping pullups are - movement standards. My box rarely uses the American swing anymore. It offers win-win situations for buyers and sellers. But none of these exercises feature having both hands so close together and then raised overhead. Why such scorn? If you enjoyed this article, check out the following article which delves into the explanation of using the back to lift weight incorrectly, and how to explain to your students what lifting with the back is. Get in touch:Email us: info[at]breakingmuscle.com. Help out and get a gift by completing this, Kettlebell Workouts and Challenges Bundle, Kettlebell Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and more, Online Kettlebell Courses and Certifications, http://www.amazon.com/Kettlebell-Swing-Amazingly-Extremely-Detailed-ebook/dp/B01EANE5RG/, https://www.facebook.com/groups/kettlebell.swing/, using the back to lift weight incorrectly. The online reverse auction system enables multiple sellers to connect with a buyer on a real-time basis. This is compounded by a wide enough stance to swing the bell between the legs, as the opposite is true for the lower body the closer your feet are together the better your shoulder mobility. Theres the American kettlebell swing, and then theres the kettlebell swing done correctly. Kettlebells are designed to be used single handed and going overhead with one hand will be far more accommodating to your lack of mobility than two hands will be. Let me explain why the American swing is not just wrong, but bad for your body. I personally dont program American Swings, but I could see how it would fit in a double arm kettlebell complex, like 3 x goblet squat, 3 x conventional swing, 3 x high swing and 3 x american swing. Overall, I am highly satisfied with my cooperation with OneClick. Overhead swings are likely doing damage to your AC joint and forcing you to overextend your back while not actually training the hinge movement better. But I digress. I think its a lot of bull to justify the American Swing with it being more natural to complete the movement, if that is the case, then why do deadlifts at all, why not complete it with a clean or snatch?
From physics we know that the higher we lift something, and the more it weighs, the more work we are performing. unfortunately you get to a point where the only load that offers a challenge is 80+ pounds, and kettle bells are very pricy at that weight. I much prefer the Russian swing and going super heavy. If I am working with someone who has shoulder issues, then I would say well you know know what I would say! Power is exactly identical to the exercise physiologists intensity. Footnote: if youre really against the American Swing, a great alternative is the Kettlebell Snatch. Bottom line - choose what works best, American not required. Work is in fact equal to the weight lifted multiplied by the height we lift the object. All hips. Therefore, kip to your motherfuckin hearts content so long as your chin gets over the bar and your head passes through locked out elbows in the base. We recharge ourselves with fun-filled monthly parties, rewards and recognitions, in-house sports, corporate events, and a lot more Romit Arora - Founder of OneClick IT Consultancy Pvt. As Samuel says, It just makes no sense.. The biggest culprit of this is the American swing. I definitely recommend him and OneClick IT Consultancy to any serious projects out there. CrossFit isa great system, but its not utilising kettlebells well due to the lack of qualified kettlebell instruction. If we all recognize that the swing is a hip hinge and is all about hip extension, then at the point the hips are fully extended youve actually finished working. Breaking Muscle is the fitness worlds preeminent destination for timely, high-quality information on exercise, fitness, health, and nutrition. so, get that sucker bottoms up and we'll call it even. A Trainer Shared His Top Tip for Bicep Workouts, Noah Schnapp Confirms Will Byers' Sexuality, 34 Gifts Your Groomsmen Will Actually Keep, This content is created and maintained by a third party, and imported onto this page to help users provide their email addresses.